Transcript:
Justin:
So the mission is like, “You’re all the way up here” and then you come home and it’s just “Boom, you’re done, you’re not in the mission anymore, give us that name tag, you can’t preach the gospel like you did anymore, now go live your life.”
I was going to say, “Hey, guys,” but David says, “Hey, guys.”
David:
That’s my line!
Justin:
Yeah. [inaudible 00:00:22].
David:
You can’t use it!
Justin:
I got this, let’s start. Welcome to Saints Unscripted. Today, we have our good friend Kaitlyn on the show, and we’re going to talk about missions. “Wait Justin, you have talked about missions all the time, what’s different?” Well, we’re talking about post-mission anxiety. This was something that we’ve pinged at and we’ve talked about anxiety and mental health in so many episodes in there and we’ll leave the links below for the more interesting ones.
David:
[inaudible 00:00:54] the less interesting ones.
Justin:
But not the ones that I was in, more of the ones David’s been in. I’m just kidding. But no. Yeah. So we’re going to talk about kind of this combination of mental health issues that sometimes come after the mission. Maybe not clinical diagnosis, maybe just “Ah, I’m a little more stressed.” Or maybe stuff that is a little more serious. Our experiences maybe you can relate, maybe not, but I guess to start, we’ve all served a mission, right?
Kaitlyn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
David:
Indeed.
Justin:
I served in Tijuana, Mexico from 2013 to 2015. That’s like… I don’t know if that dates me, not really. I feel like it makes me feel young.
David:
I’m not going to say the years.
Kaitlyn:
I don’t know if I want to say.
Justin:
When did you serve?
Kaitlyn:
I served 2014 to 2016 in Chile, Osorno it’s the very bottom-
Justin:
Oh, very cool.
Kaitlyn:
… the very Southern, Southern mission.
Justin:
Do you speak Spanish? I didn’t know that.
Kaitlyn:
Mm-hmm.
Justin:
Sipo.
David:
We should do Spanish episodes.
Kaitlyn:
Sipo is huh… sipo. Yes…
David:
I served in Chihuahua Mexico. Hello Chihuahua…
Justin:
When did you serve?
David:
Oh my gosh. I served in 2010 to 2012. I’m so old.
Justin:
He’s so old…
Kaitlyn:
2010 to 2012? I thought that you were like… I was in high school…
Justin:
That’s crazy. Yeah. I was…
Kaitlyn:
Well that’s not that big of a difference when you’re missionary. I mean missionaries are like 20…
David:
Yeah… Now you all know, I’m old… Okay?
Kaitlyn:
Anyway…
Justin:
You missed a big secret
Speaker 4:
I’m old Gandalf… I know I don’t look it.
David:
My big secret.
Justin:
You look great.
David:
So my hairline might give it away, but there you go.
Kaitlyn:
Yeah.
David:
So I think this is going to be an interesting conversation, because for instance, I wouldn’t say that I particularly experienced any post-mission anxiety. I feel like I was so anxious on my mission.
Justin:
That coming home was such a relief.
David:
Yeah, getting home. It was just like, I’m on top of the world…
Justin:
I mean, that’s part of it.
I can do anything… You can fly!
Kaitlyn:
That’s good.
Speaker 5:
We can fly…
Speaker 6:
You can fly.
Speaker 5:
We can fly…
Justin:
And for those of you, who’ve never watched the show before a mission is when you voluntarily serve the church, just preaching the gospel in wherever they call you for like one and a half to two years. And it’s stressful. It’s hard.
David:
Oh, it’s so hard.
Justin:
It’s so worth it. Right. If you live it, you’re like, I’m glad I did that. But I almost think that’s where the stress comes from after the mission is because it’s such a cool spiritual experience. You’re on a spiritual high. And then it’s one of the most… Because, have you ever, in general conference watch general conference, it’s super great. You feel like really spiritual and the next Monday comes along and you’re just kind of like, Hmm. I miss that powerful spirit.
Kaitlyn:
I’m failing already Feeling.
Justin:
Yeah, exactly. Everything that [inaudible 00:03:36] taught us, I’ve already messed up. So the mission’s like, you’re all the way up here. And then you come home and it’s just, boom!
You’re done, you’re not a missionary anymore, give us the name tag. You can’t preach the gospel like you did anymore. Now, go live your life. And you’re like,
Kaitlyn:
Yeah. And I think that happens to… And missions are a big part of it. And also at that age, I think that a lot of people were starting to go to college. Were becoming adults. Were having to face the world in a way that we didn’t have to before. And like a mission.
Justin:
Oh… and the dating, you know.
Kaitlyn:
Yeah, dating and jobs. And what am I going to do with my life? And mission gives you this type of structure, which is nice and it’s really hard and everything, but it also comes at that time of life when you’re like, oh shoot. I don’t know. I think a lot of people around that age kind of develop like really stressful. I don’t know. They go through stressful things or they have mental health challenges or so it happens to be that a mission also happens at that time.
Justin:
It’s just that perfect timing.
Kaitlyn:
And it’s one of those really hard life-changing things, really awesome life changing though.
Justin:
And it just all hits at once.
Speaker 7:
Son of a nutcracker.
Justin:
Because realistically, any one of these things, it’s like, okay, we can make it through it, it gets better, but yeah, all those combined and that’s just what you face when you graduate high school, because when you’re a teenager, it’s stressful because you’re the hormonal whatever craziness. But then when you’re in your twenties and now it’s like you’re expected to get married, but then you’re also expected to be an adult, but you’re really still a kid, and the mission is cool because it gives you a chance to get to know yourself a little bit as an adult in a structured environment. But then it doesn’t translate a hundred percent, cause there’s a schedule on the mission. Like you were saying, it’s structured, you got like the wake up a certain time, study the scriptures for certain amount of time, go out, preach, go to these lessons that you scheduled and then come home, eat dinner every hour of your day is planned out.
I don’t know about you. But when I came home, I woke up at seven the first day and I felt really guilty.
Speaker 8:
Peter! We slept in!
Justin:
Just naturally because I had, this was a rule that I, and I just like, I messed up already, but I’m like, oh, but it’s fine. But I’m not on a mission anymore. And then I didn’t study my scriptures right away. I hung out with my family and ate breakfast and then they watched a movie and I was like, I know I shouldn’t be watching a movie. I’m like, no, I can. The first few weeks is just like this, the last two years is kind of deconstructing. And I think that alone, whether it’s diagnosed anxiety and depression, I don’t know. But there is a certain amount of just anxiety involved in coming home. Right? That transition any big transition in your life is going to… whether it’s marriage, whether it’s a new job, whether it’s like school, any big thing has going to introduce a certain amount of anxiety.
And, the nice thing is, is that we have the resources to help us, the church, the gospel in general, that’s what it’s for is to help you feel peace, help you feel loved. I think the problem, one of the bigger problems we face is what happens when it’s not just that normal anxiety we all face, but when it’s a little bit more, and that’s something like that’s where I think we see the problem with a lot of return missionaries facing where it’s like, they’ve spent this whole mission learning how to handle stress and they come home like, oh, I can handle it. But then they’re not like it’s a little bit more than just what we can do on our own. This is when it starts to become clinical, like anxiety disorder and depressive disorder.
And, but we don’t recognize it because we think we can just work through it on our own or that the gospel is enough. And then I don’t know about you guys. I went like the first year coming home was just like this slow spiral of like, I just never felt same. Like, cause the mission was so like beautiful and wonderful. And I came home and I was just like, I miss those experiences. And I would like try to recreate them. you go to church, you try to like, hang out with your family. And you’re like, this is beautiful, but it just didn’t feel the same. And I thought it was just because the mission, I was like, oh, let’s just not the mission. You know? But it wasn’t until I got the courage to talk to a therapist that they were like, oh no, like you should still be feeling that like some things going on here that we can address, but you just don’t, you just don’t know.
Kaitlyn:
Yeah. Sometimes you, you can’t really tell whether it’s just you or whether this is normal or what you’re feeling when you get home is supposed to be happening. You know, you don’t always know because it’s different for everybody. Like when I served my mission, I feel like my mental health during my mission was actually pretty good. Like I did just fine on my mission and I was like loving it and it was hard and, but I did. Okay. And then coming home, I adjusted pretty well. I was pretty happy to come home. I was like, I did my mission. Like I’m ready to go back into real life. And so adjusting for me, wasn’t difficult to real life. It was okay. And then it was with time that I just noticed that I started to kind of spiral a little bit kind of what you were talking about. And some of it, I guess, is like a little bit of guilt because you’re thinking like when I first got home, I don’t know if you guys did. I was like, I’m going to study my scriptures for an hour every day.
Speaker 9:
All right. Hey, good job guys.
Kaitlyn:
I was like so determined and… I didn’t do that…
Justin:
And I still do… I’m just kidding.
David:
I never stopped… yeah.
Justin:
David didn’t.
Kaitlyn:
Yeah. And it just, I didn’t know what was happening because I hadn’t experienced this type and it started to affect everything in my life. I couldn’t enjoy things that I used to enjoy. I, I was so worked up all the time about everything
Justin:
Worked up and like…
Speaker 4:
Worked up, like everything made me so anxious and worried. Like I couldn’t even go on a hike without absolutely thinking. I was going to get killed by a Cougar.
Speaker 6:
No… No… Go away!
Kaitlyn:
Or something. Like, I just was so on edge.
Justin:
Sure. So, almost unreal like a little unrealistic.
David:
Yeah. To the point of being unrealistic
Kaitlyn:
To the point of being pretty unrealistic and I didn’t know where this was coming from and I didn’t know, like people in my family there were there, wasn’t a lot of that in my family. And so I wasn’t familiar with it. And I started to feel really bad because I knew who I was on the mission and I knew who I was before. And I was like, man, I like walked the streets of Chile and I got rained on and I’d talk to people.
Justin:
Yeah, seriously. if you’re not afraid of getting killed there then
Kaitlyn:
Yeah… and so I, one time I said to my mom on the phone, I was like, I don’t even think I’m that person anymore, who I was on my mission. I don’t know what’s going on. And it was finally when I decided to recognize, like talk to somebody about it and find a professional or whatever that help I needed. That was when it got a lot better. Like it, sometimes you just have to take that step to accept like, okay, something is going on and I need to get help for it because it’s just like that first step, just recognizing it is what helped so much because like, oh, now I kind of understand why I’m feeling this way.
David:
Yeah. This is really interesting. Cause everybody’s experiences are different. I have a hard time relating a little bit because I feel like I came home from my mission and I was just like, take my sword and go charge at the world, have a great time. And…
And, there are definitely the stresses of life and everything and natural anxiety that comes along with that. But in your different experiences, what was it, or how did you come to realize and maybe admit to yourself that you needed help, that this wasn’t just like the normal level of anxiety that life gives you, but it was something a little deeper than that. And you needed some backup maybe
Justin:
Yeah, no. Yeah. I think like one thing that I realized coming on from my mission is I, all my friends were still on missions, so I was kind of like alone. Right. I didn’t have any. And I was like in a new ward kind of situation, just wasn’t really making friends, having a hard time. I felt just kind of really shy because I’m naturally really shy. And then I just remember, like I would go home and I would like watch movies, TV shows until like five or six in the morning. Like I just didn’t want to go to sleep. It would be like, and then, and then I’d be so exhausted that I would finally fall asleep and I would sleep like four or five hours during the day, wake up, do school work, whatever nighttime would come and I’d be like, I just don’t want to go to sleep.
Like I, and I didn’t know why really, but it was just like this kind of weird thing. And I just kind of was doing it. And I was like, everybody, nobody wants to sleep. Everyone wants to stay up late. Nobody wants to and I was just telling myself, this is what everybody does, because to an extent that is true.
David:
Specially college.
Justin:
Yeah, exactly. Like I know, so I didn’t feel like I was doing anything too crazy. Right. But then that obviously messes with your body when you don’t keep a healthy schedule. And then it wasn’t until it was really special. Honestly, I’m always going to tear up when I talk about it. But when I’m thinking, I just don’t want to cry. Like I want to be able to say it when, when Kwaku invited me to be on the show, then I was like, yeah, like what is it?
Cause I didn’t really watch anything. And he’s like, oh yeah, we just shared the gospel and this YouTube channel. And I was like, that sounds really cool. Just like to any chance to bear my testimony. Cause that brought me so much joy in my mission. I was like, maybe that would help me feel a little more excited just to live, cause I wasn’t living, I was just sleeping and watching shows, which you can live doing that, but it just didn’t feel right. And so when I got invited like help stay on the show, it was really a special and that definitely like got me something to look forward to something I was excited about. And one episode we did where we talked about mental health and anxiety and we had a guest on, Sabrina and we have an episode with her and she was talking about in high school. She just, she was diagnosed with it in high school and got medication and, and it just changed her life. And I was just sitting there and I was like trying to hold back my tears. And I was like, I think I need help. You know?
And like, and I just, it just kind of made sense, hearing her experience. So I talked to my mom about it and she’s like, well, I took medication and she’s like, your dad’s on medication right now. I’m like, I didn’t know that, like you guys are perfect. What, like you struggled. And she’s like, yeah, like it kind of runs in our family. And I was like, oh, like that’s something, you know, if it runs in the family, it’s genetic, it can be. And so that like a turning point to like go to a therapist, get on medication, like try different medications. That’s a whole other thing, and it’s years, just to get back to a point where things normal and healthy. But I think that was like hearing somebody else’s story. No, not everybody feels like this is very unique. You’re not alone though. You know? It’s like, this is like this caveat. Like, no, not everybody, but there are people and they got help and it got better. So you can get help and it gets better.
David:
I feel like sometimes when you do make that step and you go and get help you then look back and if I’m wrong, correct. Make sure you look back and you’re like, why did I make that so difficult by myself?
Kaitlyn:
Yes, for sure.
Justin:
Totally, yeah, exactly.
David:
And you’re like, this isn’t that big of a deal.
Justin:
Yeah. Yeah. When you’re like, oh, medicine, I don’t know if I want to take medicine. And then after a week on just like supplementing the, whatever the chemical is that I was missing, just like once the medication was getting in, I was like, I woke up on time and I was like, I’m going to go to the gym today. I hadn’t been to the gym in a year, and I was like, oh… And I went through the whole day. And I was like, what a good day? And then I was like, I got to get, and then I burst into tears, Like, I’m happy again. So it definitely is like.
Kaitlyn:
Yeah, that’s really cool that you took that step. When you saw that someone else was going through that, it helped you. I had seen that as well. And unfortunately I took a long time to do something about it. It had been, I think I was dealing with it for about three years before I finally decided like, okay. And I think part of the thing was I felt like imposter syndrome.
Where you kind of feel like you don’t qualify for something. I felt like my struggles..
Justin:
Can you actually explain that.
David:
I was like, when you fall in love with your kidnapper?
Justin:
Yeah, I’ve never heard of that. Stockholm Syndrome
Kaitlyn:
It’s like, when you get a job, for example, and you are at your job and you feel like everybody totally knows what they’re doing and you kind of don’t, you’re like, I’m just faking it. I don’t know if I’m supposed to be here. I don’t know if I’m skilled or not
Justin:
When everyone’s really everyone’s faking it.
Kaitlyn:
Yeah everyone’s faking it…
Justin:
But you feel like…
Kaitlyn:
Yeah, I was feeling like what I was going through wasn’t as bad as what other people were going through. And I was like, is this even worth getting help? am I doing that bad? Or am I just stressed? Right.
Justin:
Because some people express it in a very dramatic…
Kaitlyn:
Yeah… A lot of people exhibit like intense physical signs of it. And I didn’t have a whole lot of that. It’s so different for everybody. But, and I would, I was at BYU at the time and I would walk past the therapy office and I would slow down and then I’d be like, no, no, no. And I did that so many times.
Justin:
That’s so stressful.
Kaitlyn:
And then I finally said to my husband, I really need to talk to somebody. And I think I need to get some help because I realized that I was struggling to live my life, how I felt like I wanted to, I used struggled to recognize and feel the Spirit’s influence in my life. It affected me in so many ways. And so once I made that decision, I went to a professional and he was like, yeah, this is something you have. And I felt instantly just like this peace, because I was like, oh, there’s not something… I literally thought there was something wrong with me.
Justin:
Well, you think it’s your will your psyche, like, I’m a bad person. Because I don’t want to do stuff I know I’m supposed to do.
Kaitlyn:
Yeah. And people were like, they tell you just, don’t worry. Just don’t worry so much. I’m like, I’m trying. Well, I can not. And, and once I did that, it has just been so much better. We found the right thing that worked for me, the right medication, the right, talking to therapists and whatnot. And it has just been so much better. And I wish that I had done it sooner, but looking back, I’m glad that I learned the things that I did and I’m grateful for that structure. And just the testimony and the strength that I learned from my mission, that kind of helped me through that as well. So…
Justin:
One thing that I think that happens, and I’ve definitely am a culprit of this is when you have a hard time and it’s after your mission, I think you can… Bless you.
David:
Thank you. Sorry.
Justin:
No, you’re good. But I think you make this association where you’re like, oh, the mission did this to me. I’ve definitely been guilty of thinking that or it’s like, oh, that’s like, it was so hard. And then they send me home and then I just get wrecked like emotionally and ah, this mission really messed me up. And then when I’ve gotten through it, and now that I’m feeling a lot better, a lot healthier, I look back at it and I’m like, oh no, it was like, you grow up with your parents, all that structure, they’re there to help you on the mission. You have a mission president, all these leaders were always there helping you. And then this is at least my experience. Right. And then, then you go to college and you’re kind of all alone and you still have these resources, but it’s significant. You don’t have a companion there 24 7, so your life changes so drastically, especially if you’re predisposed to anxiety or depression, then that’s when it’s going to strike. Right.
David:
So it’s almost just like, it’s not caused by the mission, but at least in your case, but the contrast between the structured life of the mission versus the open-ended-ness of life after the mission, that contrast.
Justin:
I think anybody, and that’s it, let’s take the mission out and call it an internship or visiting family for a certain amount of time. It could be anything when there’s those drastic changes that happen in your life. And maybe you aren’t quite equipped to handle them yet. Right. Or just life. You’re never going to be prepared for everything. So I think sometimes we make that association like, oh, the mission caused this, but I like, I don’t think that’s the case. And I think I just don’t want anybody out there watching to think, oh, I shouldn’t go on a mission because then I’m going to come home and get depression and anxiety…. no, definitely go. If you feel like that’s, what’s right for you, just, you can do, then this is something they’ve started to do is they’ve created mental health programs for while you’re in the mission to help you prepare for coming home, because they’ve seen this issue appearing more and more. And so I know like my last couple of weeks they’d just started this program. It’s a little too late for me, but they were like, Hey, here’s this pamphlet, we’re going to do meetings every week up until you leave to help you be ready, prepared. So it’s just a big change, I don’t know if that’s…
Kaitlyn:
Yeah, no, I love the points you bring up and missions are just so life-changing in every way that whether you come home and you’re like feeling the struggle when you get home or, some people even feel it on the mission. And I know people who have been sent home or gone home because they’ve struggled with that on the mission too. And that is okay. Just remember that you are not any weaker because that has happened. Whether it happens before your mission, during your mission, after your mission, everyone it’s different for everybody. And you never know when that kind of challenge might confront you. Cause I had, I never thought, you know, you kind of think like that’s not going to happen to me, but it does. and so, yeah, I really liked what you said. Just, yeah, we don’t want to scare anybody about missions because they’re the best, they’re seriously an incredible blessing, really.
Justin:
If anything, we want you to go out there, more prepared. Yeah. Just to be more excited because…
David:
And there will be, again, everybody’s experience is different and there will be people out there who might relate to your experience…
Justin:
Right.
David:
Your experience or my experience…
Justin:
Your experience.
David:
My experience is super different than yours. But if you are one of those people that’s listening to Justin and Kaitlin and either you’re a returned missionary or whatever stage of life you’re in. And what they’re saying is resonating with you. And you’re like, you know what? I relate to that. And I think maybe I should talk to somebody, go talk to somebody, go talk to a friend or a family member.
Justin:
Seriously…You don’t have to sit there…
Kaitlyn:
Yeah, anybody!
Justin:
Well, I’m going to call a therapist right now. That’s terrifying.
Kaitlyn:
Start with someone you know, someone you love, someone you trust.
Justin:
Your dog, your cat, even. Just say it out loud. Yeah…
David:
If you don’t have anybody message these guys right here, can I say that? Can they message you?
Justin:
I have a private account. So I feel bad because they message me there I won’t even see it, but yeah.
David:
Try to message Justin and get no response.
Justin:
Try… try, I dare you.
Kaitlyn:
All right. Well, thanks for watching everybody. We invite you to like, subscribe comment. If you’d like, we would love that. We’d love to hear your input and maybe even some of your experiences. So…
Justin:
We love you guys, a lot. Sounded so insincere… We do! Ahh…
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